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I’ve been following the discussion around the Minneapolis Music Circles recently, and I love that ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
chasophonic is trying to corral some of that discussion -- thank you, Chas! But... even though I’m not part of the Minneapolis music scene except on rare occasions, I thought it might be worth reprising a post I wrote back in January of 2005. This is mostly that post (pretty much verbatim), along with some new comments. I’d post it over in Chas’s topic, but this is way too long for a comment. So it’s here...
Let me start by giving you my take on SEMPS...
Here's my background: I’ve been playing in bands since I was 12 -- as a singer, as a guitarist, as a bassist. I’m now in my middle 50s and still playing in bands. Now, when I put together a group, I emphatically do not let anyone who wants to join be part of the ensemble. I choose (or whomever is putting the group together chooses) certain musicians for certain qualities which will hopefully make a sum greater than its individual parts. I pick Tom because he can sing certain songs better than I can (and I can sing certain songs better than him.) I choose Rick because I don’t know of anyone who can touch him on keyboards, or who knows music better. I choose Vogel as my drummer because he and I have been playing together so long that I know when he’s going to do something strange with the kick drum or snare and can follow him without even thinking about it. And so on...
I’m looking for a certain sound. A certain atmosphere. That means I want Musician A to be a part of it and not Musician B, and absolutely not any musician who wanders by and wants to join in. Sorry.
To me, putting on a SEMP isn’t that much different. (For those who don’t know: a SEMP is a “Snobby Elitist Music Party” where only specifically-invited musicians are allowed to perform.) The person organizing the SEMP -- whether they’re a musician themselves or not -- is looking to create a group atmosphere and a synergy between the musicians in the circle, and so they choose who’s going to play and who isn’t. A SEMP becomes, almost literally, a “band”: a group formed for a single, improvised performance.
I see nothing wrong with that -- as long as the audience also isn’t ‘private’. A SEMP is a 'concert performance' by a band -- a loose band, a one-time band, a large band, but a band.
When my bands play, we often have musician friends in the audience. We will sometimes drag them onto stage (kicking and screaming) to sit in for a song or two. More often, though, we don’t. And that’s our choice to make. If I go hear another band, especially one where I know the musicians, I have no expectation that I’ll be asked to get up with them and do a song or two. If they don’t ask, I’m not offended -- because that’s my default expectation: I’m not playing tonight. Tonight I am part of the audience. If that changes, fine, but there’s no implied insult if they never allow me to display my much-vaunted musical skills. I’m perfectly happy listening.
I’m perfectly happy listening to a SEMP circle when I’ve not been invited, too.
That’s my take on SEMPS -- please feel free to disagree: I won’t be insulted by that, either. :-)
************
Let’s move on. The stuff below comes from having been in a few (and the important word there is ‘few’) Mpls.-style music circles as a musician. In my attempt to fit in, I’ve come up with some guidelines for ‘fitting in.’ I give them here -- and you’re free to use them or not.
The Perfect Circle Song
The ideal song (to useminnehaha B's terminology) will "do no harm." In other words, the song you choose shouldn't jar against what was played immediately before it. If at all possible, the song should play off the previous song and add energy to flow of the circle. In any case, it must not utterly kill the flow by being inappropriately 'different.'
The ideal song has a relatively simple chord structure. Part of the synergy of a music circle is participation from the other musicians. The simpler the chord structure, the better musical support you'll get. Jazz chords are right out unless you want to be playing alone (and sometimes you might...)
The ideal song has a strong chorus that everyone can sing along with. In fact, it's even better if the chorus has harmonic possibilities. Audience participation builds energy within the circle.
The ideal song is 'folk-y' rather than 'rock-y' or 'jazz-y.' That's a corollary of the two rules above. Folkish tunes tend to have a simple chord structure and a strong, repeating chorus section... Given the instruments within the usual Mpls-style music circle (acoustic guitars, mandolins, fiddles, and hand drums), folkish stuff is best. Songs that require screaming guitar solos are right out. Songs that require sax solos over diminished fifth and major 7-9 chords are likewise out.
The ideal song is twenty to thirty years old. Mostly that's because the average ago of the musicians in these circles can vary quite a bit, so the older the song, the more likely everyone is to know it. I don't think there's a particular prejudice against 'new' songs; only that newer songs may not be as well-known. The better-known the song, the better able the musicians will be to play along. The better-known the song, the more likely it is that people will sing along with the chorus.
The ideal song is not an original, but a cover of someone else's song. I'm not saying that you can't do original material -- you can -- but only that if you do something original, don't expect participation from the other musicians in the circle or to have people joining in on the chorus. If you must do an original tune, it helps if it's humorous. And if you're in music circles often enough, an original tune can become well-known enough that everyone does join in because it now qualifies (within that group) as 'well-known.' But for occasional musicians and newcomers, who get to play in a music circle once or twice a year (or less) it's far, far safer to perform cover material.
If another musician in the circle gives you a 'suggestion,' don't take it personally Maybe they don't want you playing bass along with them, or adding your lead line, or maybe you are playing too loudly. So stop. Don't be offended. When it's their lead turn, they get to do what they want to do and if they don't want your contribution, don't contribute but also don't take offense. When it's your lead turn, you can do whatever you'd like.
Those are my thoughts at the moment, anyway. I've been looking at the list of "songs I know that I might be able to do solo" and separating them into "A," "B," and "C" lists using the above as a guide. In the few circles I've been in, I know I've made some choices I shouldn't have along those lines...
...and given that most of the time in a circle you're not doing a lead, I've also been thinking about this:
**********
"Guidelines For Accompaniment":
When singing, do not sing louder than the person doing the lead. Hey, it's their turn to shine, not yours. Being someone with a, umm, 'loud' voice, I have to watch that myself (back in The Day, the sound engineer for our band had to put a 10db pad on my channel in the board, just to have more headroom). There was someone out in the audience at a Saturday night Confusion SEMP one time who was trying to out-sing me on "Hallelujah" and I just turned up the volume. I'm relatively confident that I can out-volume nearly anyone if I have to. But not everyone can do that, and frankly, I shouldn't have to do it, either. The lead person's voice should be the one that you hear on top, not yours, and the lead shouldn't have to be straining to be heard... When singing harmony on a chorus, blend! Make sure your part doesn't overbear or dominate.
If you don't know the song or can't make an educated guess at the chords, don't play along. "Do no harm." If you're fumbling for the chords, you're doing harm. For that matter, look at the lead person. If they're frowning, maybe they don't want you playing along. If you suspect that, drop out. (I'm still learning this one...)
If you're playing along, blend. That's a touchy one. As someone who's usually playing bass when not taking a lead, I can also be an offender here. For instance, I thought that my acoustic bass could have used just a touch of amplification at that Saturday night Confusion SEMP, but others in the circle might have disagreed -- and it's better to be too quiet than to be too loud. Hand drummers should provide a foundation of rhythm, not drum solos. FIddles and mandolins should add nice little filigrees of support to the song, not be playing constant solos over the lead vocal. Kazoos should be used sparingly. :-)
When you're a newcomer to the circle, try to make sure you're not singing someone else's song... If at all possible, run your list past someone who knows the people in the circle and what they usually play, and have that person tell you if any of your songs are 'owned' by any of the other musicians. For example, iffredcritter is in the circle, you shouldn't play "Quinn the Eskimo" on your lead turn. That's one of Fred's several 'signature' songs. First, not only would your singing it be rude (assuming you're aware it's a song Fred performs regularly), you're not likely to do it as well. In any case, it's not going to endear you to the circle. It's not always possible to avoid this, especially if you're playing with people whose song lists you don't know. In fact, I've probably done it myself inadvertently, but...
********
Again, these are all guidelines, not rules. This really isn’t Steve saying “This Is How It Is” -- Steve doesn’t have enough experience of Mpls. music circles to know that -- this is instead Steve saying “Here’s what I think would work for me the next time I’m in one of those circles.” Now, if you ask me what the rules are for playing in a band in a smoky dive bar, then hey, I’ll be happy to expound -- with that I have plenty of experience!
In any case, I toss this out there for discussion with the full expectation that some of you think this Totally Wrong.
chasophonic is trying to corral some of that discussion -- thank you, Chas! But... even though I’m not part of the Minneapolis music scene except on rare occasions, I thought it might be worth reprising a post I wrote back in January of 2005. This is mostly that post (pretty much verbatim), along with some new comments. I’d post it over in Chas’s topic, but this is way too long for a comment. So it’s here...Let me start by giving you my take on SEMPS...
Here's my background: I’ve been playing in bands since I was 12 -- as a singer, as a guitarist, as a bassist. I’m now in my middle 50s and still playing in bands. Now, when I put together a group, I emphatically do not let anyone who wants to join be part of the ensemble. I choose (or whomever is putting the group together chooses) certain musicians for certain qualities which will hopefully make a sum greater than its individual parts. I pick Tom because he can sing certain songs better than I can (and I can sing certain songs better than him.) I choose Rick because I don’t know of anyone who can touch him on keyboards, or who knows music better. I choose Vogel as my drummer because he and I have been playing together so long that I know when he’s going to do something strange with the kick drum or snare and can follow him without even thinking about it. And so on...
I’m looking for a certain sound. A certain atmosphere. That means I want Musician A to be a part of it and not Musician B, and absolutely not any musician who wanders by and wants to join in. Sorry.
To me, putting on a SEMP isn’t that much different. (For those who don’t know: a SEMP is a “Snobby Elitist Music Party” where only specifically-invited musicians are allowed to perform.) The person organizing the SEMP -- whether they’re a musician themselves or not -- is looking to create a group atmosphere and a synergy between the musicians in the circle, and so they choose who’s going to play and who isn’t. A SEMP becomes, almost literally, a “band”: a group formed for a single, improvised performance.
I see nothing wrong with that -- as long as the audience also isn’t ‘private’. A SEMP is a 'concert performance' by a band -- a loose band, a one-time band, a large band, but a band.
When my bands play, we often have musician friends in the audience. We will sometimes drag them onto stage (kicking and screaming) to sit in for a song or two. More often, though, we don’t. And that’s our choice to make. If I go hear another band, especially one where I know the musicians, I have no expectation that I’ll be asked to get up with them and do a song or two. If they don’t ask, I’m not offended -- because that’s my default expectation: I’m not playing tonight. Tonight I am part of the audience. If that changes, fine, but there’s no implied insult if they never allow me to display my much-vaunted musical skills. I’m perfectly happy listening.
I’m perfectly happy listening to a SEMP circle when I’ve not been invited, too.
That’s my take on SEMPS -- please feel free to disagree: I won’t be insulted by that, either. :-)
************
Let’s move on. The stuff below comes from having been in a few (and the important word there is ‘few’) Mpls.-style music circles as a musician. In my attempt to fit in, I’ve come up with some guidelines for ‘fitting in.’ I give them here -- and you’re free to use them or not.
The Perfect Circle Song
The ideal song (to use
minnehaha B's terminology) will "do no harm." In other words, the song you choose shouldn't jar against what was played immediately before it. If at all possible, the song should play off the previous song and add energy to flow of the circle. In any case, it must not utterly kill the flow by being inappropriately 'different.'The ideal song has a relatively simple chord structure. Part of the synergy of a music circle is participation from the other musicians. The simpler the chord structure, the better musical support you'll get. Jazz chords are right out unless you want to be playing alone (and sometimes you might...)
The ideal song has a strong chorus that everyone can sing along with. In fact, it's even better if the chorus has harmonic possibilities. Audience participation builds energy within the circle.
The ideal song is 'folk-y' rather than 'rock-y' or 'jazz-y.' That's a corollary of the two rules above. Folkish tunes tend to have a simple chord structure and a strong, repeating chorus section... Given the instruments within the usual Mpls-style music circle (acoustic guitars, mandolins, fiddles, and hand drums), folkish stuff is best. Songs that require screaming guitar solos are right out. Songs that require sax solos over diminished fifth and major 7-9 chords are likewise out.
The ideal song is twenty to thirty years old. Mostly that's because the average ago of the musicians in these circles can vary quite a bit, so the older the song, the more likely everyone is to know it. I don't think there's a particular prejudice against 'new' songs; only that newer songs may not be as well-known. The better-known the song, the better able the musicians will be to play along. The better-known the song, the more likely it is that people will sing along with the chorus.
The ideal song is not an original, but a cover of someone else's song. I'm not saying that you can't do original material -- you can -- but only that if you do something original, don't expect participation from the other musicians in the circle or to have people joining in on the chorus. If you must do an original tune, it helps if it's humorous. And if you're in music circles often enough, an original tune can become well-known enough that everyone does join in because it now qualifies (within that group) as 'well-known.' But for occasional musicians and newcomers, who get to play in a music circle once or twice a year (or less) it's far, far safer to perform cover material.
If another musician in the circle gives you a 'suggestion,' don't take it personally Maybe they don't want you playing bass along with them, or adding your lead line, or maybe you are playing too loudly. So stop. Don't be offended. When it's their lead turn, they get to do what they want to do and if they don't want your contribution, don't contribute but also don't take offense. When it's your lead turn, you can do whatever you'd like.
Those are my thoughts at the moment, anyway. I've been looking at the list of "songs I know that I might be able to do solo" and separating them into "A," "B," and "C" lists using the above as a guide. In the few circles I've been in, I know I've made some choices I shouldn't have along those lines...
...and given that most of the time in a circle you're not doing a lead, I've also been thinking about this:
**********
"Guidelines For Accompaniment":
When singing, do not sing louder than the person doing the lead. Hey, it's their turn to shine, not yours. Being someone with a, umm, 'loud' voice, I have to watch that myself (back in The Day, the sound engineer for our band had to put a 10db pad on my channel in the board, just to have more headroom). There was someone out in the audience at a Saturday night Confusion SEMP one time who was trying to out-sing me on "Hallelujah" and I just turned up the volume. I'm relatively confident that I can out-volume nearly anyone if I have to. But not everyone can do that, and frankly, I shouldn't have to do it, either. The lead person's voice should be the one that you hear on top, not yours, and the lead shouldn't have to be straining to be heard... When singing harmony on a chorus, blend! Make sure your part doesn't overbear or dominate.
If you don't know the song or can't make an educated guess at the chords, don't play along. "Do no harm." If you're fumbling for the chords, you're doing harm. For that matter, look at the lead person. If they're frowning, maybe they don't want you playing along. If you suspect that, drop out. (I'm still learning this one...)
If you're playing along, blend. That's a touchy one. As someone who's usually playing bass when not taking a lead, I can also be an offender here. For instance, I thought that my acoustic bass could have used just a touch of amplification at that Saturday night Confusion SEMP, but others in the circle might have disagreed -- and it's better to be too quiet than to be too loud. Hand drummers should provide a foundation of rhythm, not drum solos. FIddles and mandolins should add nice little filigrees of support to the song, not be playing constant solos over the lead vocal. Kazoos should be used sparingly. :-)
When you're a newcomer to the circle, try to make sure you're not singing someone else's song... If at all possible, run your list past someone who knows the people in the circle and what they usually play, and have that person tell you if any of your songs are 'owned' by any of the other musicians. For example, if
fredcritter is in the circle, you shouldn't play "Quinn the Eskimo" on your lead turn. That's one of Fred's several 'signature' songs. First, not only would your singing it be rude (assuming you're aware it's a song Fred performs regularly), you're not likely to do it as well. In any case, it's not going to endear you to the circle. It's not always possible to avoid this, especially if you're playing with people whose song lists you don't know. In fact, I've probably done it myself inadvertently, but...********
Again, these are all guidelines, not rules. This really isn’t Steve saying “This Is How It Is” -- Steve doesn’t have enough experience of Mpls. music circles to know that -- this is instead Steve saying “Here’s what I think would work for me the next time I’m in one of those circles.” Now, if you ask me what the rules are for playing in a band in a smoky dive bar, then hey, I’ll be happy to expound -- with that I have plenty of experience!
In any case, I toss this out there for discussion with the full expectation that some of you think this Totally Wrong.
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From:
Seven got me to heaven
Here's the list that came from the discussion on my LJ (it wasn't long after yours, sleigh, but before we 'met.'):
1. Circles that grow to large turn off fans and players alike
2. Circles that are too limited create negative vibes in the community
3. Musicians that are in tune with the room succeed regardless of ability, as long as they are at least adequate.
4. Private parties are just that, and all rules are set by the host(s).
5. Split circles along filk and folk are FINE.
6. You can't please everyone so you've got to please yourself.
7. 10-15 musicians seems to max out the circle's patience.
8. Lead players should share in order not to expect a solo every song.
9. Performer's value audience and other performers nearly equally and will leave for any number of reasons.
10. Suggestions to performers are not always taken well regardless of intent.
11. Drummers welcome in limited numbers.
12. Please see Summary #6
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
"Not in tune with the room" is one of the slightly-less-well-known classic blunders.
K. [truly I have a dizzying intellect]
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
But I feel that you're just getting started...
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Re: Humor
"And if so, and that's a widely-noticed problem with that people desire to solve, what can be done about it?" I start writing two different sentences in my head, and they both win, it seems.
What I actually meant to say was: " And if so, and that's a widely-noticed problem that people desire to solve, what can be done about it?" I'm sure everyone figured it out, but GAHHHHH. So frustrating.
K.
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
I don't know if it can be taught. It can be learned, though. After my first day at Minicon, I went home, picked up a flat-pick, and learned to add some pep to my step.
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
I can't even claim that I'm sick of all the songs people play that I've heard a lot of times, because that's just not so. Certain songs: yes, absolutely. You've heard me complain about Mari-Mac as one example, and there are others. But Kurt's current closer is a song I've never gotten sick of, and I doubt I ever will. (I also like it when Elise sings it, or Dave... it's universally excellent.)
"In tune with the room" is what makes Minn-STF Music different than a Pick/Pass/Play circle or some other music-playing gatherings. And the more songs someone knows, the more ways they can demonstrate that, is all.
K. [Someday, everything is gonna be smooth like a rhapsody]
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
K.
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
K. [there's that sensitivity thing again]
From:
Re: Seven got me to heaven
(This is why we practice... because we rarely get it right the first time!) :-)
From:
Re: Seven got me to heaven
2) Not sure what you mean by 'limited' -- are you talking SEMPS or style of music or instrumentation or what? My agreement or disagreement with this would vary depending on the definition.
3) Yep. Room awareness is at least as critical as musical facility.
4) Yep. The person putting on the party gets to make the rules.
5) I prefer to have the two separate myself...
6) I only agree with that to a point. I've heard lots of musicians who are playing what pleases themselves, but they're the only ones enjoying the performance. That isn't what I want. I'm an applause addict, and I will freely admit it.
7) I suspect the ideal number is somewhere between 6 and 10
8) Again, not sure what you mean by that. Lead players should share what?
9) Don't know if it's true or not, but okay...
10) Indeed. Muscians have egos.
11) Yes. And only one bass player at a time. (I say that as someone who's primarily a bassist.) You can have as many guitars as you want playing rhythm, but one bass per song is enough.
12) Still don't agree. I realize it's an impossible task, but I still want to please as many people as possible. I want the audience going away happy and excited -- because that will please me... :-)
From:
Re: Seven got me to heaven
2. Limited invites to play, SEMP style.
6. I mean the party-throwers/goers and musicians here in attending/not attending the party.
8. Share lead break opportunities so every lead player gets a crack at one. This might mean sitting out a song or two.
9. Subjective based on the 90+ commentary preceding this list...
11. Some instruments play well with others (you noted this as well), some don't, and some you really can stop at just one :).
12. See 6. ;-)
This list was culled from a much longer conversation (I posted links to both on my LJ if you want to see them (that bored, eh?)). Yours is much more comprehensive, but I was an elementary teacher and found that kids need basic, easy to remember rules that they help create...wait...bad metaphor coming...ow...OK all better.
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
To some degree, it's like writing. If I keep sending a story out and it keeps getting rejected, at some point I probably should be wondering if the problem's the story, not the poor taste of editors. I can fix a story that doesn't work the way it should. I can't 'fix' the editors -- so getting all bent out of shape about how they can't recognize great writing when they see it isn't doing me any good.
8) That's a corollary of #7, then. Ideally, you keep the circle small enough that it doesn't take two hours to get around the circle.
Does the Mpls. community ever do circles where people just pop in when they think they have the perfect 'follow' song? That style has its own problems and issues (especially when you get someone who always has the perfect 'next song...'), but has it been tried and rejected?
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
In the circle at ConFusion that I referenced in the post, there were two people to the left of me who were the Black Holes of Musical Synergy. It all went in and nothing came out the other side...
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
K.
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
What you have as a follow has nothing to do with what I want to play next, and you're assuming your follow is better than mine.
And its rude.
I really don't like it to the point of thinking its inappropriate (unless its happy birthday for someone).
Does that help?
Really? Early? Yeah, that's the song :).
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
It's arrogant, it's rude, and to the person who was next in line, it's really jarring, since you'd been thinking about your follow all along and now you have to shift gears and follow this jerk who just stomped all over you.
But... none of those sensibilities would be there if 'jumping in' after a song with a follow were the rule rather than the exception. Not sure I'd like that style of circle, though...
Re: Seven got me to heaven
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
Wait, that was a separate thread ;-).
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
lol