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I’ve been following the discussion around the Minneapolis Music Circles recently, and I love that ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
chasophonic is trying to corral some of that discussion -- thank you, Chas! But... even though I’m not part of the Minneapolis music scene except on rare occasions, I thought it might be worth reprising a post I wrote back in January of 2005. This is mostly that post (pretty much verbatim), along with some new comments. I’d post it over in Chas’s topic, but this is way too long for a comment. So it’s here...
Let me start by giving you my take on SEMPS...
Here's my background: I’ve been playing in bands since I was 12 -- as a singer, as a guitarist, as a bassist. I’m now in my middle 50s and still playing in bands. Now, when I put together a group, I emphatically do not let anyone who wants to join be part of the ensemble. I choose (or whomever is putting the group together chooses) certain musicians for certain qualities which will hopefully make a sum greater than its individual parts. I pick Tom because he can sing certain songs better than I can (and I can sing certain songs better than him.) I choose Rick because I don’t know of anyone who can touch him on keyboards, or who knows music better. I choose Vogel as my drummer because he and I have been playing together so long that I know when he’s going to do something strange with the kick drum or snare and can follow him without even thinking about it. And so on...
I’m looking for a certain sound. A certain atmosphere. That means I want Musician A to be a part of it and not Musician B, and absolutely not any musician who wanders by and wants to join in. Sorry.
To me, putting on a SEMP isn’t that much different. (For those who don’t know: a SEMP is a “Snobby Elitist Music Party” where only specifically-invited musicians are allowed to perform.) The person organizing the SEMP -- whether they’re a musician themselves or not -- is looking to create a group atmosphere and a synergy between the musicians in the circle, and so they choose who’s going to play and who isn’t. A SEMP becomes, almost literally, a “band”: a group formed for a single, improvised performance.
I see nothing wrong with that -- as long as the audience also isn’t ‘private’. A SEMP is a 'concert performance' by a band -- a loose band, a one-time band, a large band, but a band.
When my bands play, we often have musician friends in the audience. We will sometimes drag them onto stage (kicking and screaming) to sit in for a song or two. More often, though, we don’t. And that’s our choice to make. If I go hear another band, especially one where I know the musicians, I have no expectation that I’ll be asked to get up with them and do a song or two. If they don’t ask, I’m not offended -- because that’s my default expectation: I’m not playing tonight. Tonight I am part of the audience. If that changes, fine, but there’s no implied insult if they never allow me to display my much-vaunted musical skills. I’m perfectly happy listening.
I’m perfectly happy listening to a SEMP circle when I’ve not been invited, too.
That’s my take on SEMPS -- please feel free to disagree: I won’t be insulted by that, either. :-)
************
Let’s move on. The stuff below comes from having been in a few (and the important word there is ‘few’) Mpls.-style music circles as a musician. In my attempt to fit in, I’ve come up with some guidelines for ‘fitting in.’ I give them here -- and you’re free to use them or not.
The Perfect Circle Song
The ideal song (to useminnehaha B's terminology) will "do no harm." In other words, the song you choose shouldn't jar against what was played immediately before it. If at all possible, the song should play off the previous song and add energy to flow of the circle. In any case, it must not utterly kill the flow by being inappropriately 'different.'
The ideal song has a relatively simple chord structure. Part of the synergy of a music circle is participation from the other musicians. The simpler the chord structure, the better musical support you'll get. Jazz chords are right out unless you want to be playing alone (and sometimes you might...)
The ideal song has a strong chorus that everyone can sing along with. In fact, it's even better if the chorus has harmonic possibilities. Audience participation builds energy within the circle.
The ideal song is 'folk-y' rather than 'rock-y' or 'jazz-y.' That's a corollary of the two rules above. Folkish tunes tend to have a simple chord structure and a strong, repeating chorus section... Given the instruments within the usual Mpls-style music circle (acoustic guitars, mandolins, fiddles, and hand drums), folkish stuff is best. Songs that require screaming guitar solos are right out. Songs that require sax solos over diminished fifth and major 7-9 chords are likewise out.
The ideal song is twenty to thirty years old. Mostly that's because the average ago of the musicians in these circles can vary quite a bit, so the older the song, the more likely everyone is to know it. I don't think there's a particular prejudice against 'new' songs; only that newer songs may not be as well-known. The better-known the song, the better able the musicians will be to play along. The better-known the song, the more likely it is that people will sing along with the chorus.
The ideal song is not an original, but a cover of someone else's song. I'm not saying that you can't do original material -- you can -- but only that if you do something original, don't expect participation from the other musicians in the circle or to have people joining in on the chorus. If you must do an original tune, it helps if it's humorous. And if you're in music circles often enough, an original tune can become well-known enough that everyone does join in because it now qualifies (within that group) as 'well-known.' But for occasional musicians and newcomers, who get to play in a music circle once or twice a year (or less) it's far, far safer to perform cover material.
If another musician in the circle gives you a 'suggestion,' don't take it personally Maybe they don't want you playing bass along with them, or adding your lead line, or maybe you are playing too loudly. So stop. Don't be offended. When it's their lead turn, they get to do what they want to do and if they don't want your contribution, don't contribute but also don't take offense. When it's your lead turn, you can do whatever you'd like.
Those are my thoughts at the moment, anyway. I've been looking at the list of "songs I know that I might be able to do solo" and separating them into "A," "B," and "C" lists using the above as a guide. In the few circles I've been in, I know I've made some choices I shouldn't have along those lines...
...and given that most of the time in a circle you're not doing a lead, I've also been thinking about this:
**********
"Guidelines For Accompaniment":
When singing, do not sing louder than the person doing the lead. Hey, it's their turn to shine, not yours. Being someone with a, umm, 'loud' voice, I have to watch that myself (back in The Day, the sound engineer for our band had to put a 10db pad on my channel in the board, just to have more headroom). There was someone out in the audience at a Saturday night Confusion SEMP one time who was trying to out-sing me on "Hallelujah" and I just turned up the volume. I'm relatively confident that I can out-volume nearly anyone if I have to. But not everyone can do that, and frankly, I shouldn't have to do it, either. The lead person's voice should be the one that you hear on top, not yours, and the lead shouldn't have to be straining to be heard... When singing harmony on a chorus, blend! Make sure your part doesn't overbear or dominate.
If you don't know the song or can't make an educated guess at the chords, don't play along. "Do no harm." If you're fumbling for the chords, you're doing harm. For that matter, look at the lead person. If they're frowning, maybe they don't want you playing along. If you suspect that, drop out. (I'm still learning this one...)
If you're playing along, blend. That's a touchy one. As someone who's usually playing bass when not taking a lead, I can also be an offender here. For instance, I thought that my acoustic bass could have used just a touch of amplification at that Saturday night Confusion SEMP, but others in the circle might have disagreed -- and it's better to be too quiet than to be too loud. Hand drummers should provide a foundation of rhythm, not drum solos. FIddles and mandolins should add nice little filigrees of support to the song, not be playing constant solos over the lead vocal. Kazoos should be used sparingly. :-)
When you're a newcomer to the circle, try to make sure you're not singing someone else's song... If at all possible, run your list past someone who knows the people in the circle and what they usually play, and have that person tell you if any of your songs are 'owned' by any of the other musicians. For example, iffredcritter is in the circle, you shouldn't play "Quinn the Eskimo" on your lead turn. That's one of Fred's several 'signature' songs. First, not only would your singing it be rude (assuming you're aware it's a song Fred performs regularly), you're not likely to do it as well. In any case, it's not going to endear you to the circle. It's not always possible to avoid this, especially if you're playing with people whose song lists you don't know. In fact, I've probably done it myself inadvertently, but...
********
Again, these are all guidelines, not rules. This really isn’t Steve saying “This Is How It Is” -- Steve doesn’t have enough experience of Mpls. music circles to know that -- this is instead Steve saying “Here’s what I think would work for me the next time I’m in one of those circles.” Now, if you ask me what the rules are for playing in a band in a smoky dive bar, then hey, I’ll be happy to expound -- with that I have plenty of experience!
In any case, I toss this out there for discussion with the full expectation that some of you think this Totally Wrong.
chasophonic is trying to corral some of that discussion -- thank you, Chas! But... even though I’m not part of the Minneapolis music scene except on rare occasions, I thought it might be worth reprising a post I wrote back in January of 2005. This is mostly that post (pretty much verbatim), along with some new comments. I’d post it over in Chas’s topic, but this is way too long for a comment. So it’s here...Let me start by giving you my take on SEMPS...
Here's my background: I’ve been playing in bands since I was 12 -- as a singer, as a guitarist, as a bassist. I’m now in my middle 50s and still playing in bands. Now, when I put together a group, I emphatically do not let anyone who wants to join be part of the ensemble. I choose (or whomever is putting the group together chooses) certain musicians for certain qualities which will hopefully make a sum greater than its individual parts. I pick Tom because he can sing certain songs better than I can (and I can sing certain songs better than him.) I choose Rick because I don’t know of anyone who can touch him on keyboards, or who knows music better. I choose Vogel as my drummer because he and I have been playing together so long that I know when he’s going to do something strange with the kick drum or snare and can follow him without even thinking about it. And so on...
I’m looking for a certain sound. A certain atmosphere. That means I want Musician A to be a part of it and not Musician B, and absolutely not any musician who wanders by and wants to join in. Sorry.
To me, putting on a SEMP isn’t that much different. (For those who don’t know: a SEMP is a “Snobby Elitist Music Party” where only specifically-invited musicians are allowed to perform.) The person organizing the SEMP -- whether they’re a musician themselves or not -- is looking to create a group atmosphere and a synergy between the musicians in the circle, and so they choose who’s going to play and who isn’t. A SEMP becomes, almost literally, a “band”: a group formed for a single, improvised performance.
I see nothing wrong with that -- as long as the audience also isn’t ‘private’. A SEMP is a 'concert performance' by a band -- a loose band, a one-time band, a large band, but a band.
When my bands play, we often have musician friends in the audience. We will sometimes drag them onto stage (kicking and screaming) to sit in for a song or two. More often, though, we don’t. And that’s our choice to make. If I go hear another band, especially one where I know the musicians, I have no expectation that I’ll be asked to get up with them and do a song or two. If they don’t ask, I’m not offended -- because that’s my default expectation: I’m not playing tonight. Tonight I am part of the audience. If that changes, fine, but there’s no implied insult if they never allow me to display my much-vaunted musical skills. I’m perfectly happy listening.
I’m perfectly happy listening to a SEMP circle when I’ve not been invited, too.
That’s my take on SEMPS -- please feel free to disagree: I won’t be insulted by that, either. :-)
************
Let’s move on. The stuff below comes from having been in a few (and the important word there is ‘few’) Mpls.-style music circles as a musician. In my attempt to fit in, I’ve come up with some guidelines for ‘fitting in.’ I give them here -- and you’re free to use them or not.
The Perfect Circle Song
The ideal song (to use
minnehaha B's terminology) will "do no harm." In other words, the song you choose shouldn't jar against what was played immediately before it. If at all possible, the song should play off the previous song and add energy to flow of the circle. In any case, it must not utterly kill the flow by being inappropriately 'different.'The ideal song has a relatively simple chord structure. Part of the synergy of a music circle is participation from the other musicians. The simpler the chord structure, the better musical support you'll get. Jazz chords are right out unless you want to be playing alone (and sometimes you might...)
The ideal song has a strong chorus that everyone can sing along with. In fact, it's even better if the chorus has harmonic possibilities. Audience participation builds energy within the circle.
The ideal song is 'folk-y' rather than 'rock-y' or 'jazz-y.' That's a corollary of the two rules above. Folkish tunes tend to have a simple chord structure and a strong, repeating chorus section... Given the instruments within the usual Mpls-style music circle (acoustic guitars, mandolins, fiddles, and hand drums), folkish stuff is best. Songs that require screaming guitar solos are right out. Songs that require sax solos over diminished fifth and major 7-9 chords are likewise out.
The ideal song is twenty to thirty years old. Mostly that's because the average ago of the musicians in these circles can vary quite a bit, so the older the song, the more likely everyone is to know it. I don't think there's a particular prejudice against 'new' songs; only that newer songs may not be as well-known. The better-known the song, the better able the musicians will be to play along. The better-known the song, the more likely it is that people will sing along with the chorus.
The ideal song is not an original, but a cover of someone else's song. I'm not saying that you can't do original material -- you can -- but only that if you do something original, don't expect participation from the other musicians in the circle or to have people joining in on the chorus. If you must do an original tune, it helps if it's humorous. And if you're in music circles often enough, an original tune can become well-known enough that everyone does join in because it now qualifies (within that group) as 'well-known.' But for occasional musicians and newcomers, who get to play in a music circle once or twice a year (or less) it's far, far safer to perform cover material.
If another musician in the circle gives you a 'suggestion,' don't take it personally Maybe they don't want you playing bass along with them, or adding your lead line, or maybe you are playing too loudly. So stop. Don't be offended. When it's their lead turn, they get to do what they want to do and if they don't want your contribution, don't contribute but also don't take offense. When it's your lead turn, you can do whatever you'd like.
Those are my thoughts at the moment, anyway. I've been looking at the list of "songs I know that I might be able to do solo" and separating them into "A," "B," and "C" lists using the above as a guide. In the few circles I've been in, I know I've made some choices I shouldn't have along those lines...
...and given that most of the time in a circle you're not doing a lead, I've also been thinking about this:
**********
"Guidelines For Accompaniment":
When singing, do not sing louder than the person doing the lead. Hey, it's their turn to shine, not yours. Being someone with a, umm, 'loud' voice, I have to watch that myself (back in The Day, the sound engineer for our band had to put a 10db pad on my channel in the board, just to have more headroom). There was someone out in the audience at a Saturday night Confusion SEMP one time who was trying to out-sing me on "Hallelujah" and I just turned up the volume. I'm relatively confident that I can out-volume nearly anyone if I have to. But not everyone can do that, and frankly, I shouldn't have to do it, either. The lead person's voice should be the one that you hear on top, not yours, and the lead shouldn't have to be straining to be heard... When singing harmony on a chorus, blend! Make sure your part doesn't overbear or dominate.
If you don't know the song or can't make an educated guess at the chords, don't play along. "Do no harm." If you're fumbling for the chords, you're doing harm. For that matter, look at the lead person. If they're frowning, maybe they don't want you playing along. If you suspect that, drop out. (I'm still learning this one...)
If you're playing along, blend. That's a touchy one. As someone who's usually playing bass when not taking a lead, I can also be an offender here. For instance, I thought that my acoustic bass could have used just a touch of amplification at that Saturday night Confusion SEMP, but others in the circle might have disagreed -- and it's better to be too quiet than to be too loud. Hand drummers should provide a foundation of rhythm, not drum solos. FIddles and mandolins should add nice little filigrees of support to the song, not be playing constant solos over the lead vocal. Kazoos should be used sparingly. :-)
When you're a newcomer to the circle, try to make sure you're not singing someone else's song... If at all possible, run your list past someone who knows the people in the circle and what they usually play, and have that person tell you if any of your songs are 'owned' by any of the other musicians. For example, if
fredcritter is in the circle, you shouldn't play "Quinn the Eskimo" on your lead turn. That's one of Fred's several 'signature' songs. First, not only would your singing it be rude (assuming you're aware it's a song Fred performs regularly), you're not likely to do it as well. In any case, it's not going to endear you to the circle. It's not always possible to avoid this, especially if you're playing with people whose song lists you don't know. In fact, I've probably done it myself inadvertently, but...********
Again, these are all guidelines, not rules. This really isn’t Steve saying “This Is How It Is” -- Steve doesn’t have enough experience of Mpls. music circles to know that -- this is instead Steve saying “Here’s what I think would work for me the next time I’m in one of those circles.” Now, if you ask me what the rules are for playing in a band in a smoky dive bar, then hey, I’ll be happy to expound -- with that I have plenty of experience!
In any case, I toss this out there for discussion with the full expectation that some of you think this Totally Wrong.
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Thanks for the reprise of your older post. It was illuminating the first time I read it, and it's aged well....
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In going back and re-reading the post, I found that my opinion really hasn't changed much in the intervening few years, so thought I might as well toss it out there again...
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I would also be interested in hearing from several players how many songs one must know and be able to play well. I think, from Kurt's experience, that we've determined that it's more than seven. ;-) I suggest that a DSW (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=DSW) about the length of one's list is not interesting.
K.
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But yes, in an open circle, that could be an issue... and I think it becomes incumbent on the other musicians in the circle to serve a gentle educators and mention to the offending person the issues.
How many songs? My bet is that you need at least 15 - 20, because you're going to need to pick and choose the right song for the right moment. You might only get a lead turn six or seven times a night in a big circle, but you can't just have six or seven songs. The more, the better.
For me, that also means that I'm going to need music, because I don't play solo often enough to have memorized all the lyrics. But yes, I do practice all the songs beforehand!
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More social difficulty comes from differing tolerance levels for This or That. If you're hosting, and you like Local Performer, they'll play at your event. If I am hosting in the same city and I don't really care for Local Performer, and don't want them to play, it's *really awkward* to not invite them if their friends are invited to play. No one gets perfect control of the circle, even when hosting.
K.
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K.
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Of course, that puts a lot on the host.
Yeah, I understand what you mean about the awkwardness and there being no perfect control...
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Humor
I've been thinking about this a lot. It's my opinion that many funny songs are funny because of the surprise of the joke or the cuteness of the words, and that most funny songs are only fun to hear twice, maybe three times, ever.
Songs with some humor that bounce along usually work, but if it's based on clever wordplay or a repeated joke in a chorus, I'm usually done hearing it after about twice.
In my originals, I've written 2 funny songs. $300 Car seems still popular, but it no longer makes me laugh. "Warning Labels" is cute and was good once, and really never again.
In covers: Jerusalem makes people laugh no matter how many times they have heard that I am the Messiah. I don't actually know why, only that it does.
Humor is very tricky, I guess, is my point.
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I don't know if I've written any funny songs-I've certainly written one snarky Happy Song, but...
Originals have to be like covers in the sense that people are going to 'get' them and they then become part of the milieu.
*brag* Happy Everafter & Requiem I'm proud to pull out at any music circle, and the Mpls folks just make it that much more special because they know them (Big Boy too, but that's seen it's day).
Like anything else-other people (musician's mostly) have to like your stuff, though I agree that keeping it limited to a couple here and there (I always, I mean _always_ test drive a new song in the circle when I can...Rain being the latest one...so I break this rule occasionally). *end brag*
Finally, timing and room feel for song selection matter more: If everyone wants to sing along, my latest original might not be the one to play just then ;-). If everyone is listening, though, then it's high time.
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Logic/Math of Romance has not aged as well for me. Big Boy had a shockingly long run before it ran out.
I'm really not interested in playing any of my early originals right now except for Long Black Hair, because of the shouting of epithets.
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Any song gets tired if you do it constantly. Believe me, I know... There are several songs that are to me the musical versions of Sisyphus's rock. :-)
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K.
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Seven got me to heaven
Here's the list that came from the discussion on my LJ (it wasn't long after yours, sleigh, but before we 'met.'):
1. Circles that grow to large turn off fans and players alike
2. Circles that are too limited create negative vibes in the community
3. Musicians that are in tune with the room succeed regardless of ability, as long as they are at least adequate.
4. Private parties are just that, and all rules are set by the host(s).
5. Split circles along filk and folk are FINE.
6. You can't please everyone so you've got to please yourself.
7. 10-15 musicians seems to max out the circle's patience.
8. Lead players should share in order not to expect a solo every song.
9. Performer's value audience and other performers nearly equally and will leave for any number of reasons.
10. Suggestions to performers are not always taken well regardless of intent.
11. Drummers welcome in limited numbers.
12. Please see Summary #6
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"Not in tune with the room" is one of the slightly-less-well-known classic blunders.
K. [truly I have a dizzying intellect]
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But I feel that you're just getting started...
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2) Not sure what you mean by 'limited' -- are you talking SEMPS or style of music or instrumentation or what? My agreement or disagreement with this would vary depending on the definition.
3) Yep. Room awareness is at least as critical as musical facility.
4) Yep. The person putting on the party gets to make the rules.
5) I prefer to have the two separate myself...
6) I only agree with that to a point. I've heard lots of musicians who are playing what pleases themselves, but they're the only ones enjoying the performance. That isn't what I want. I'm an applause addict, and I will freely admit it.
7) I suspect the ideal number is somewhere between 6 and 10
8) Again, not sure what you mean by that. Lead players should share what?
9) Don't know if it's true or not, but okay...
10) Indeed. Muscians have egos.
11) Yes. And only one bass player at a time. (I say that as someone who's primarily a bassist.) You can have as many guitars as you want playing rhythm, but one bass per song is enough.
12) Still don't agree. I realize it's an impossible task, but I still want to please as many people as possible. I want the audience going away happy and excited -- because that will please me... :-)
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Re: Seven got me to heaven
2. Limited invites to play, SEMP style.
6. I mean the party-throwers/goers and musicians here in attending/not attending the party.
8. Share lead break opportunities so every lead player gets a crack at one. This might mean sitting out a song or two.
9. Subjective based on the 90+ commentary preceding this list...
11. Some instruments play well with others (you noted this as well), some don't, and some you really can stop at just one :).
12. See 6. ;-)
This list was culled from a much longer conversation (I posted links to both on my LJ if you want to see them (that bored, eh?)). Yours is much more comprehensive, but I was an elementary teacher and found that kids need basic, easy to remember rules that they help create...wait...bad metaphor coming...ow...OK all better.
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