Been musing on politics a bit... I'm increasingly disheartened by the Obama administration, which appears to be so solidly Centrist that they might as well be Republicans, except that the Republicans have shuffled desperately away to the right toward their loud and paranoid fringe. I don't think I've changed my social/religious/political views all that much, but somehow -- without me moving -- the political tide seemed to have gone out, leaving me mired to the ankles in the wet sand of the far left.

Damn. A decade or two ago, I used to place myself somewhat left of the middle in the political spectrum, but certainly nowhere near the left fringe. I felt myself to be mostly in the mainstream of the Democratic Party. Now, I need binoculars to see the middle. I listen to the Tea Party advocates howling that Obama is a "socialist/fascist/communist" and wonder what in the hell they're raving about. Thus far in his first term, Obama has shown himself to be about as socialistic and leftist as Eisenhower. And the right side of the spectrum -- the Palins, the Huckabees, the Bachmanns, the "Christian" fundies -- well, they scare the hell out of me.

Right now -- through my spectacles -- I see a Democratic party that is no longer liberal, but decisively Centrist. I see a Republican party that is cloaked in the mists well off to the right, and I see a vocal faction within that party that wants to drag it even further that way.

And over here on the left, there are the sand people, stranded by the receding political tide.

Is that the landscape others see? Or have I unknowingly walked left away from the center and stranded myself?

From: [identity profile] lsanderson.livejournal.com

That's...


"Bachmann" -- with an extra "N" for extra nuttiness.

What I think has happened, is that we've begun to buy into the vast rightwing conspiracy about the so-called liberal media. Media has become enthralled by its corporate masters, and now goes from the right nut fringe (Faux News) to left of center right (NY Times). It ustta be that the John Bircher's were fairly universally considered insane, and only paraded out to reinforce that viewpoint. Now those insane have become standard TV news personalities, and they're trotted out every night and twice on Sunday.

We have always been at war with Eurasia.

OTOH, if you're listening to the Velvet Underground, you obviously are a DFH.

From: [identity profile] scbutler.livejournal.com

Re: That's...


Hippies never listened to the Velvets. Just punks. Yay, punks!

From: [identity profile] greenmtnboy18.livejournal.com


Well, I've always been one of the sand people, so I may not be the best person to evaluate, but... yes. The Democrats are very centrist and have moved more so. As the right has swung farther right.

And speaking as a socialist, I agree that calling Obama a socialist is just completely laughable. Snort.

I started out not super disappointed, because I didn't expect much... except for this administration to NOT be a McCain/Palin administration, which was a very frightening concept to me. I admit though that my disappointment has peaked during the healthcare thing.


From: [identity profile] lizziebelle.livejournal.com


I'm here on the beach with you. I am completely baffled by what's happened to American politics in the past twenty or so years. Where did all these nutcases come from? And why do they have so much power? Are people really that sheeplike? I guess they are, because an awful lot of them are listening.

I think Obama is suffering from the same affliction that Clinton had: trying to please too many people, and therefore not pleasing anyone.

From: [identity profile] minnehaha.livejournal.com

U.S. Political Landscape


This (http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2003_08_03_dneiwert_archive.html#106036545440271111) is long -- many parts -- but explains much of what has happened. Basically, the extreme right, by moving the end of the spectrum, has pulled the center far to the right. Look abroad and you start seeing how narrow the political spectrum is in the U.S. We don't have a liberal party. We have a far-right party, and we have a center-right party.

B

From: [identity profile] sleigh.livejournal.com

Re: U.S. Political Landscape


Yes, that's exactly my perception as well. There is no liberal party here. THe main political spectrum seems to cut off just slightly to the left of where the center used to be.

From: [identity profile] minnehaha.livejournal.com

Re: U.S. Political Landscape


Anyone who calls Obama a Socialist needs to get out and meet an actual Socialist.

Not that the label is supposed to be accurate; it's supposed to be scary.

B

From: [identity profile] sleigh.livejournal.com

Re: U.S. Political Landscape


The true strength of the far right seems to be an ability to twist the meanings of words. If you rail long enough about "liberals," liberal becomes a dirty word and an insult.

From: [identity profile] minnehaha.livejournal.com

Re: U.S. Political Landscape


I recently saw a psychology study -- I can't find it now -- that repeated exposure to a piece of information, even if it is later completely discredited, affects people's opinion.

Propaganda works.

B

From: [identity profile] barondave.livejournal.com


I still consider myself a conservative in many areas, since I actually want to conserve something (notably the environment). While my views on any one issue may land in various places on the political spectrum, I'm basically a moderate. This makes me a flaming liberal in today's society.

For example, I still have my draft card from the Vietnam era. Didn't burn it, nope nope. Back in the 60s and 70s, New York had Republicans worth voting for. No longer.

Political trends swing from one end to the other. I'm waiting for America's liberal tendencies to reassert itself. It's a bit longer than I would like.

From: [identity profile] spaceoperadiva.livejournal.com


I used to consider myself a Republican and a Centrist. I agree entirely with your assessment of the rightwards drift It's heavy in all of the GOP, with a huge faction of people who probably consider Mussolini too liberal wishing to move beyond "right" and into some hyper-right re-imagined out of an Orwell or Atwood novel.

I used to think the GOP was: "let's not have too much government or meddle with State's rights, let's everyone mind their own business and not have government poking their noses into private lives, and let's have government support business". Maybe I was delusional and that GOP never really existed. Maybe I stranded myself in the center by having a wrongheaded notion about what the GOP was all along, or maybe the GOP betrayed its core values when it signed on with the radical evangelical right.

Even so, I know I've moved to the left as I've gotten older. I think I've grown more compassionate, and in my experience the left has more compassionate social policies. I understand economies of scale a lot better now. However "rugged individualist" I was raised to be out in the last of the wild west, I'm not so whacked as to think that I can, all by myself, ensure that my food supply is safe, my water is clean and shared equitably, and I know it would not be a good thing if everyone on my block had to fix the street in front of their houses like subjects of the Roman empire.

I've also learned (from Facebook, of all places) that there are a lot more people in the center than one might be led to believe. It seems like most everyone in the center is afraid that everyone else on earth is over there on the hyper-right and so they're afraid to say anything that will get them labeled left-liberal. Eh. These days keeping your mouth shut gets you labeled left-liberal as well, so I might as well talk.

From: [identity profile] scbutler.livejournal.com


Obama was always a centrist. This was plain throughout the campaign. Progressives who thought otherwise were engaging in wishful thinking.

And it would be wishful thinking of the worst sort (like voting for Nader) to think this will be any different in 2012.
(deleted comment)

From: [identity profile] scbutler.livejournal.com


Kucinich was a great candidate, but I'm always about supporting the guy who can be elected. As you say, Obama is exponentially better than McCain/Palin would have been. As Gore would have been exponentially better than Bush had he won in 2000, even though Gore was about my third or fourth choice for the Dems that time around.

From: [identity profile] rdeck.livejournal.com


Voting for a Democrat and expecting to get a liberal or progressive is 'wishful thinking of the worst sort.' Which is why I voted for Nader the last three times.

From: [identity profile] gryphart.livejournal.com


I'm right there with you. I don't really understand why the left is abandoning so much (HCR that would make a difference, gay marriage, reproductive rights, on and on) as a lost cause because the Bachmanns and Palins of the world make a lot of noise over it.

On the more hopeful end of the spectrum, though, all of the right or right-leaning people I know are pretty disgusted with the social conservatives being nuts, so while it's anecdata, I'd like to see that as a sign that the crazy will eventually diminish.

From: [identity profile] kateelliott.livejournal.com


My apologies, this will be long (and yet so incomplete).

First, I agree with the commenter who said that Obama has always been a centrist and campaigned that way. My father (he taught American history) would say that the USA has always been governed, more or less, from the center--with movements off to right or left. What I see so far in this administration is pretty much what I expected.

Second, the Republican Party is, in my opinion, tugging itself into the "hard line in the sand we must do anything to stop the invasion" territory. Look how white they are, in a nation that is increasingly no longer white. Look how, forex, Iran has called for new broadcasting rules on its tv stations stressing "moral values" and "no makeup for women" and "less music." Same thing. They're fighting massive social change against a rising tide of a younger generation who does not want the rigid old world. They are being backed into a corner, and people in the corner, like rats, are dangerous. I do not trust the Tea Party Wing one tiny bit. They would kill the president if they could.

And they have succeeded in one spectacular way: our "news" has become entertainment, and they have succeeded in less than a year making more people than themselves question Obama, which is the only hope they have to get some kind of electoral victories in the future, by dragging everyone down with them. Also, if they can get enough people disappointed *in the process*, they can depress voting, and that benefits them and only them.

Third, Kucinich (et al) could not have won a general election. (see above: America tends to skew to being governed from the center). Paul Wellstone, may his memory be a blessing, did some exploratory probing for a possible run for president and determined that it was not feasible for him to attempt it. You know, I sometimes call myself a "Wellstone Democrat" and I would have supported him, but I also understand why he did not make the attempt (before his untimely and much regretted death).

Fourth: the center is shifting in odd ways, not all of them to the right. The fact that we don't yet have marriage equality is not a victory for the right. Quite the contrary. Yes, I'm disappointed we don't have marriage equality, but I'm also aware that the mere fact it is being debated and voted on and discussed everywhere is huge. Also, for the younger generation, this is a non issue. But if the combined impact of the intolerant fear-mongering right and the disappointed left depress young people's interest in the process, then they'll stop voting, and that will be the worst outcome.

Overall I give Obama a B -- in large part because I like the seriousness with which he approaches the decisions he makes. I don't agree with all of them, and there are a few I'm quite annoyed at, but overall I find him solid.

He's dealing with huge entrenched interests as well as a society that values profits over people and whose entire foundational system is, I think, gosh, I don't even know if I have a word for it: we're an empire, built on power and profit. The way our country runs today is unsustainable in the long run. That's my critique of the system.

Is Obama an enabler of the system, bought and paid for already? Is he trying to slowly work through the system making some incremental change because he's a strategic thinker and that's how he operates? Only history will tell.

From: [identity profile] scbutler.livejournal.com


Wonderful, thoughtful comment, Kate. I think this is the most important point you made -

"And they have succeeded in one spectacular way: our "news" has become entertainment, and they have succeeded in less than a year making more people than themselves question Obama, which is the only hope they have to get some kind of electoral victories in the future, by dragging everyone down with them. Also, if they can get enough people disappointed *in the process*, they can depress voting, and that benefits them and only them."

We can't allow ourselves to be disappointed in the process. However flawed it may be, it is still one of the best processes out there. We get the chance to try again every four years (and every two years in the house). Vote! Vote! Vote! And never let the extremists, or the mainstream media, discourage you.


From: [identity profile] sleigh.livejournal.com


Well spoken, Alis. Believe me, I'm fully aware that a candidate who matched my social and political views precisely would be unelectable. I'm pragmatic enough to know that elections are always won by embracing the center. But... I still contend that the center has shifted and is no longer where it was. Look at Nixon's health care proposal from 1974 (http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2009/September/03/nixon-proposal.aspx) -- back then, the Dems railed against the proposal as not going anywhere near far enough... yet in some ways it goes further 'left' than many of the plans put forward by the current congress. (I recall Ted Kennedy saying decades later that he wished he actually worked to get Nixon's plan passed, since all of the plans since then to reform health care have utterly failed.)

In the end, though, you're absolutely right -- only history will tell us how well Obama has performed.
Edited Date: 2009-12-03 06:58 pm (UTC)

From: [identity profile] kateelliott.livejournal.com


It is ironic, isn't it? Nixon!

I wonder, though, if the situation we find ourselves in is as much about the center shifting as it is about health care having become the province of entrenched profitmaking interests. The greater institution has been eaten by those who are making money off it, and they have an immense amount of money to spend to keep the status quo, which rakes them in the big bucks. I'm not as sure it is right left or center. (I could see this same thing happening incrementally to schools, forex, which would be a disaster on a similar scale.)

But your point is absolutely correct: Nixon's position in 1964 would be the center left position today. otoh, what were the rightwingers saying about it at the time (I genuinely don't know).

From: [identity profile] sleigh.livejournal.com


I'm teaching those of the "Millennial" generation now. In my anecdotal (and midwestern) experience, their 'midpoint' philosophy is further right than the previous generation.

From: [identity profile] kateelliott.livejournal.com


What about on issues like marriage equality?

(my kids and nieces/nephews, and their friends etc, are all Millenials, and while my connections tend to be fairly left, they're a really interesting group because they tend to be very family oriented and not rebellious, rather civic minded, but mostly many many of them are simply disengaged from politics, except the ones who aren't)

From: [identity profile] sleigh.livejournal.com


Depends on what you mean by "marriage equality" -- they seem to think that a marriage is an equal partnership, but I still see students who scowl and cringe if you start talking about gay marriage. In class the other night, the room I heard an audible intake of breath from the class when I happened to mention that I'm not a Christian (yes, it was pertinent to something we were discussing). I wonder what they would have thought if I'd said "I'm actually pretty much an atheist."

But again, that's anecdotal and I don't exactly live in the most liberal of cities...

From: [identity profile] kateelliott.livejournal.com


I admit, living in Hawaii is not like living in the midwest. For one thing, every neighborhood has a mission -- that is, one of the various Buddhist temples. And most governmental events and other events are opened with a Hawaiian blessing. To not be Christian here is, well, whatever.

My kids were also members of their high school's gay-straight alliance, so my view of "kids these days" may be skewed.

From: [identity profile] minnehaha.livejournal.com


Yeah, but that's the set-up, isn't it?

K. [now it's up to them to resolve the Crisis and bring on the High]

From: [identity profile] kylecassidy.livejournal.com


I think, though I'm not an expert, that the Republican party has a fracture between the two halves -- you've got the Haley Barbour side which I think of as Republicanism As We Used To Know It, and then you have the Sarah Palin side which is newer, more fundimentally religious, and angrier. I think, for the most part, there are plenty of Republicans right where you left them, but there's a significantly more organized and powerful so called "religious right" pushing the party.

Pat Buchannan has a very interesting book called "where the right went wrong" which talks about the party's shift away from Reagan. I recommend it with two thumbs up.

From: [identity profile] ontology101.livejournal.com


Your extremely well voiced friends have pretty much covered it....I just felt the need to say I am a sand person and I will continue to be proud of it, and promote my views, even if I no longer feel a part of our political spectrum.
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