Somewhere along the learning curve...

[sleigh]

Well, my second attempt at creating a cover for THE WOODS was mocked and derided by Jim Hines' minions.  OK, I knew that going in -- I liked the second cover much better than the first, but still wasn't satisfied with it, and hey, we writers like workshopping stuff, right? So when Jim said he was going to do a post on covers for ebooks and asked if he could throw mine up, I said sure.  

It was interesting to read all the comments.  As I tell my students when we're workshopping: "There will be people who like your work, and others who won't..." Covers strike some people wonderfully and others not so much; I've noticed that with draft covers floated around on various writers' lists, also:  the same cover will get everything from "fantastic" to "horrible."

And I don't claim to be an accomplished cover artist; I was doing what I could with what I had on the computer...

However, the fabulously talented photographer Kyle Cassidy (kylecassidy here on LJ) sent me a sheaf of photos he'd taken with a model featuring a woods background, and gave me permission to use them if I could use 'em.  Hey, professional work!  Cool!  So I started fiddling...

In the interest of continuing the workshopping of an eventual cover, here are four new draft covers I've put together.  Now -- what I don't want is for this to be -- as so many blogs and journals are -- an echo chamber of agreement.  Workshops need honesty.  If you really like one or more of these (and I'm hoping you do), please say so, but don't say that if you don't actually feel it.  If you have criticism, give it.  If you have feedback, give it.  You're not going to hurt my feelings. I'm trying to put together the best cover I can for the book.  Everything can be changed:  type can be altered or deleted entirely.  Components of one cover can be moved to another.  None of this is final.  In fact, saying that none of them work for you is also fine if that the way you really feel.

So here we go. Here are the four contenders...

Version #4:



Version #5



Version #6



Version #7 (using Kyle's entire shot)



The floor is now yours.  Let me know what you think.

Comments

[cathshaffer.livejournal.com]

The professional artwork looks great! I like the bottom one best because it is full page artwork. However, I think the close-up view is more attractive. I would go with the close-up version of the photo, and set it up without the banner and footer as you have at the bottom. Personally, I don't think you need "a dark fantasy" and I think your "The trees hold a terrible and a beautiful magic..." either needs work or could be eliminated. Good luck!

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

Much better than your first or second attempts. I, too, think the last one (#7) is the best. #4 and #6 -- I don't think the difference makes a difference -- is second best. But they all look professional.

B

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

But I would seriously consider using a photo of baby bunnies in cups. Who wouldn't buy the book after seeing that cover?

B

[jimhines.livejournal.com]

Hm ... I think I'd go with number one, but with the image from number three. (It looks like you zoomed in a little more on the model raised up her image a little in the third cover.) Your name is a bit hard to read in that firsst image, too. Maybe add the drop shadow from #3 as well? Getting really nitpicky, look at the spacing around your name. It's really close to the right and left edges, but with a lot more room below.

Overall though, I like where you've gone with this. I think the artwork goes better, and the layout is working for me.

[cathshaffer.livejournal.com]

After reading the comments over at Jim's blog, I agree with the person who said the cover does not convey what the book is about, and I see that's why you added the extra text. However, I wonder if you would consider changing the title, instead? _The Woods_ is a very generic title that doesn't convey anything about the book. I'm not sure what the book is about, but if it gave a sense of the book, then any of these covers would be good to go.

[cathshaffer.livejournal.com]

By the way, my suggestion for a title is _The Shadow War of the Night Dragon, Book One: The Dead Cities_. It just came to me.

[sleigh.livejournal.com]

Great suggestion -- I think I'll use that! :-)

I don't think I'll change the title, though. "The Woods" has been its title for a long, long time and I can't think of it any other way...

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

They are all similar enough to me that I don't care which you use. I object to "... a terrible and a beautiful magic" because it clangs in my ear. I'd rather "a terrible and beautiful magic".

K. [unless you want to go with "a beautiful magic of bunnies in paper cups"]

[jennreese.livejournal.com]

I like these! #4, #5, and #6 are my favorites (the balance feels best on #4, I think). In all the designs, I would lose the line beneath (or above) your descriptive text and beneath "a dark fantasy by". I think these extra lines are visually cluttering the design. I'd also suggest putting "The" in all caps, perhaps.

HUGE improvement!

[jennreese.livejournal.com]

An alternative to adding a drop shadow (which I recommend using very sparingly, for what it's worth) is to choose a different font. The one you've picked has very thin parts, which make it a wee bit harder to read. There are plenty of great serif fonts that look classic but never get so thin.

[jimhines.livejournal.com]

::Takes notes::

[sleigh.livejournal.com]

Thanks, Jenn -- I give your opinion lots of weight, as your cover for Toby was spectacular.

[sleigh.livejournal.com]

Baby bunnies in cups just can't be beat!

[sleigh.livejournal.com]

I'm going to change the title to "Baby Bunnies In Paper Cups."

[sleigh.livejournal.com]

Jenn -- Suggestions on a better serif font? I'm using Baskerville Old Face in the examples above, but I have several fonts on the computer.

[sleigh.livejournal.com]

Denise's comment on #7 was "No one would ever wear a dress and shoes like that in the woods..."

[jimhines.livejournal.com]

Hm ... that sounds more like a collection title to me.

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

That was jarring. Barefoot would be better.

B

[minnehaha.livejournal.com]

If you want to be more traditional, you could use a picture of a rabbit with a pancake on his head.

B

[sleigh.livejournal.com]

Bacon would be good too, but that's John Scalzi's routine...

[slaynsoul.livejournal.com]

That was actually my thought on looking at the last one. I felt her outfit was inappropriate, but in the close-ups, you don't get that feel. I liked either 4 or 6. The green banner... just felt a bit out of sync. The other two 'browns' flowed from the image better.

[kerinda.livejournal.com]

That's my comment about the last image. My favorite, actually, might be the first one. The focus is on the model, but it's not, if that makes sense. The last one? The trees aren't even in the initial glance because you're distracted by the model and her dress and her shoes, and her unlikely pose.

[barbarienne.livejournal.com]

Definitely better than the earlier ones, but still not hooking me. The photo is good, but the image is still just a girl in front of woods, without enough context.

The words "A dark fantasy" help, but I need the woman to be doing something other than standing there staring at me. Is she afraid of the woods, or is she the "terrible and beautiful magic"? She doesn't look afraid; neither does she look threatening. She looks like a model selling a dress, not like a model acting a role. (Or as Tyra Banks would say, "It's too catalog, not editorial.")

That's the problem with "found art"--even when it's good, it's harder to get it to match the book contents than something commissioned.

Suggestions:

1. Use the basic arrangement and colors of the first one. I prefer the brown as "threatening" and "dark"; the greens are a little too pastoral. The white in the 4th one is also fine.

2. Enlarge the image even closer on the model. I think cutting out a little more of her "posing" body language may minimize the catalog feel and put more attention on the woman and prompt questions about who/what she is.

[barbarienne.livejournal.com]

This is why publishing houses so often dictate the titles to the authors. You would not believe the utterly insane crap that comes through, and authors who are just convinced that they have the most genius title ever.

("The Woods" isn't insane, just kinda dull.)

[lollardfish.livejournal.com]

No knees.

Looks good. :)

Self-Publishing seminar, nonfiction, etc.

[zencuppa.livejournal.com]

On a totally off topic note...

I am running a free seminar on self-publishing nonfiction/business books tomorrow up in Mason. While it's last minute, your students are welcome to attend if it perks their interest and suits their schedule. It's full of information (vs. sales pitches) except for a little bit at the end.

For more info and to RSVP, please visit:

http://www.tothepointwriting.net/news-events/self-publishing-seminar/

If you want to know about the next one a bit earlier next time, let me know. I do talk about the act and habit of writing, engaging your reader, etc. If yes, I'll send you an email outside of LJ, beforehand....

Andrea

[teh-dirty-robot.livejournal.com]

I agree with all of this. The "dark fantasy" and "a terrible and a beautiful magic" makes it sound horribly schmaltzy.

[gerisullivan.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I'm going to cheat. It's not on your option list, but I far, far prefer the cover on the right (http://www.kylecassidy.com/lj/2011/sleigh-the-woods.jpg) of the two mock-ups Kyle did to any of the covers here. Everything in it works better for me. It's spooky and beautiful. The shoes disappear, the coat on the model makes her seem much more in place, the typography helps the title attract attention, and all of the elements work together rather than fighting against each other (like the title and author do in version 7).

I'm not completely sold on the script face Kyle chose for the tagline, but it's okay and any script or italic will be better than the current roman type tagline. Note also the improved effect you get with that little bit more breathing room on the left and right margins of the type. If you end up going with one of your covers, I strongly recommend not crowding the edges so much.

[jennreese.livejournal.com]

Sorry it's taken me so long to answer -- I wanted to check my files, and I had a book due yesterday.

In terms of serif fonts, it looks like I use a lot of:
Goudy Old Style
Optimus Princeps
Trajan Pro

I don't think all of those are free, though.

If you want to look for some other free font options, I like www.fontsquirrel.com and www.dafont.com (choose free/public domain in search).

I often experiment with all caps, all lowercase, and small caps -- they can make a huge difference with the font. And sometimes making the font smaller but increasing the space between letters adds sophistication. (I only do this with all caps.)

[jennreese.livejournal.com]

I am really thrilled that you like the cover I did for Toby. I'm just learning -- both Photoshop and this whole cover business -- and this is incredibly heartening. Thank you!!

[katranna.livejournal.com]

No please. :( None of these look good at all... the model stands out too much, and it's obvious she's "modeling," which doesn't work with "spooky." Even in the closeup, she's just... not someone you find in the woods, and there's no mystery or fascination there. The 2nd mockup that Kyle Cassidy did is much better, as someone else said, in the opacity of the image and the coat and so on. I would use the blurb text the way you have it in #7, and have someone with graphic design experience give you tips on the font/placement/etc of the title and your name, as it doesn't look quite right in any version I've seen.

[lenamoster.livejournal.com]

I actually prefer the other picture that Kyle posted on his lj (which is what brought me here) to this one - she is wearing a coat and not looking directly at the viewer. I feel that picture has more of a sense of fantasy about it, somehow.

[sleigh.livejournal.com]

I like Kyle's alternate cover quite a bit myself, but here's the issue. I'm already having to justify to myself the fact that young woman in the novel is dark-haired, not blonde. The entire novel also takes place in summer, and thus the addition of the coat tosses everything too far from the story for my comfort level. In the shot I chose to use, at least she's in more 'summery' attire.

The alternative, of course, is not using *any* of Kyle's lovely shots, and continuing to look for other images. Always a possibility, too I suppose...

[katranna.livejournal.com]

Can you tell us what the roman's role in the story is? Also, do you have any photographer friends or even simply friends with a decent camera who aren't terrible at composition/blurry photos? I would really suggest just taking a day out to go to a wooded area (or the Morris Arboretum, it's gorgeous and full of magical imagery) with an attractive photogenic brunette female friend, and the photographer friend, and take some atmospheric shots. (Ie, the model doing more than just staring at the camera.)

If you don't know anyone who looks like your protagonist, you could even just put out a call here and see if anyone matches. Lots of people love taking photos, you could get it done for free and it would probably be better for your cover (even if the shots wouldn't be as professional as Kyle's).

[katranna.livejournal.com]

Oops, "woman's" not "roman's"

[gerisullivan.livejournal.com]

Fair enough. I get why the coat photo doesn't work for your cover, darn it!

[katranna.livejournal.com]

I still don't know the role of the woman in your novel--whether she is the heroine, the mystery, the menace, etc... but I feel like this image would be a better fit:



http://pixdaus.com/single.php?id=177911 (by Sanura)

I am not sure if this image is up for sale but you may really want to contact the owner and see if they'd let you use it for a reasonable price...

[kylecassidy.livejournal.com]

since it's an ebook you easily can add a line that says "stacy thought back to the fall, when she'd bleached her hair and gotten a felt coat and walked once through very similar woods before dying her hair back and throwing that horrible coat away."

:)

[sleigh.livejournal.com]

That's a gorgeous shot, and except for the lamp, I love it...

I'm going to talk to a professional photographer locally.

[dynix.livejournal.com]

Wow. Really lovely that lantern shot. It's more wonderland than spooky to my, but it would make me look twice at a book on the shelf and want to know what it was about.

It's hard to put together something that conveys the feeling you want people to have when they read your work and even harder to do it when you're not making the content from scratch.

With respect to the extremely professional photos you've used in the covers above, they are model shots, so what I see is a strong confident girl striking a pose. The expression is relatively ambiguous though and you might have more luck with a close up of just her head and shoulders with the trees behind.

The variation with her wearing the coat might suit such cropping even better.

There's an awful lot that can be done with post-processing the image if you want it spookier/more mysterious.

If you're thinking about starting from scratch, then think about what you want the reader to feel when they pick up the book, braindump all that into a creative photographer, let it simmer and see what ideas they come back to you with. Even better, get them to read some or all of the book.

Best of luck with this, it ain't trivial and props to you for wanting to do justice to your work.